The Monthly Aspectarian: Alan, tell us about your latest book.

Alan Cohen: I just came out with a book about couples who remain friends and care about each other during the aftermath of a breakup or a divorce. It's called Happily Even After. My favorite subtitle, which the editor wouldn't let me use, was 50 Way to Love Your Leaver.

TMA: It's not easy for most people to remain friends with someone they've broken up with.

AC: Yes, that's been my experience, watching most people. I think a lot of it is because of the programming we received as children and young adults where we had all kinds of bizarre, dysfunctional messages on the radio-such as "Can't live if living is without you" and "Don't say no, it's the end of the world / It ended when you said goodbye." We've had a lot of very dark programming to overcome, and I think it's time we do.

TMA: Yes, you're right. Top 40 music, especially through the period that those songs came from, was very bad programming.

AC: It's just loaded with dysfunctional messages. I mean, how many songs do you remember where it says "We're breaking up and I still care about you. Let's be friends."? Instead, somebody's the dog and somebody's the victim-and unfortunately, this is a very limited way of thinking. We play out our beliefs, so what we want to do is to make a new paradigm, a new model for how good it could be and then work from that.

TMA: I think we have to understand that people grow . . . and who's right for you at 20 might not be right for you at 40.

AC: Absolutely. When people get divorced, usually the statement that haunts them the most is "…til death do us part." This is what we promised. But there are many different forms of death. Death of the physical body is one kind of death, but what about the death of a relationship. A relationship is born and lives out its course and then dies and has this heavy energy-that's certainly a death too, and at that point, it is more real sometimes than a physical death.

TMA: I think there's a sense of failure.

AC: Yes. We've been taught to believe that unless you marry somebody and live happily ever after, you've failed. But that's merely a very limiting belief. Take the analogy of a job. Let's say you take a job, you're in it for a year or three years or ten years, and you really enjoy it and do well, and then after ten years you realize that the company doesn't serve you anymore and that you're ready for the next thing, and you leave. You don't say, "Oh God, what a failure that job was." You say, "Now it's time to move on." So, when you can hold a relationship in the same context for two years, or a friendship, or living in a house or a city, it has a life course. Once you've run the course, you go on to the next thing.

TMA: For instance, everybody who has ever worked for us here at TMA has been right for the time that they were here and when they weren't anymore, they moved on.

AC: And that makes space for someone who's even more right for the next step.

TMA: Which is funny, because, you know, sitting at the top it, sometimes you can feel like whoever you have is indispensable and nobody can come in and fill those shoes. And it turns out not to be true.

AC: Absolutely. And that's a lack thought. That's a fear focus. "This is the only person who can serve me in this capacity, and oh my God, if they leave, what am I going to do? I'll be lost and alone and bereft." That notion always backfires because we do live in an abundant universe. There's always people to love us, there's always jobs, there's always employees. It's wonderful to stay in the flow.

TMA: How do you see people successfully transitioning from one relationship to another one? What are some key steps or thoughts about that?

AC: That's a good question, and I talk a lot about that in the book. The first thing is to reframe the relationship as completed so you see it in a win-win light. If you feel like you're a villain or a victim, or it was a waste of time or a failure, you're just going to grind on that and it's going to work against you and really prevent you from moving ahead successfully. So we have to look back with appreciation and blessing and thank the person for their time with you-and even if it was a challenging or painful time, thank them for helping you to grow. And thank yourself for jumping in and opening your heart and doing what you did. You have to really look at it from a higher standpoint; otherwise, it kind of slips you back to that old place and we want to move ahead. Attitude is everything.

A famous relationship expert on the radio has actually been married five times now. When the interviewer asked her on television, "How can you claim to be a relationship teacher when you're a four-time loser?" she said, "I don't consider myself a four-time loser at all, I consider myself a four-time learner. Because each of those relationships helped me to grow and if I made any mistakes, I didn't repeat them. I did make some mistakes, but I was always on the cutting edge of my growth." We can never afford to find ourselves as a failure or a loser. We're always growing and learning. That's just the nature of life.

TMA: What else is current for you?

AC: The word "authenticity" comes to mind, in the sense of being real. I have a model of integrity that's very simple and really works. To me, integrity means that which I'm doing on the outside matches who I am on the inside. When I say "yes," it's a yes that resonates inside me. If inside me I strike a clear "no," it's about lining up what I'm doing with who I am.

I have various projects I'm doing in the outer world, but they're all just excuses to practice a spiritual principle. I'm learning to fall in love with myself. Or should I say, rise in love with myself. To appreciate who I am and what I am and get over the idea that there's something to fix. To really begin to celebrate what is, and come from perfection instead of trying to go out and capture it.

TMA: Well, it will keep you honest.

AC: [laughs] Yes, that's the whole idea. Honesty's a great virtue. I'm also discovering that honesty's always loving. That it's possible to say anything to anyone and if you do it from a loving space, it works. I've had tenants that I've had to evict and employees who I've occasionally dismissed . . . sometimes you have to tell people things that are not pleasant. But if you have love in your heart and mutual respect and you're looking for win-win, then it doesn't become a problem. It becomes a gift.

TMA: You have to remember to make the right choice.

AC: Exactly. And what is the right choice but being lined up with your own inner truth. What's right and what's real. There's no external "right" thing you're supposed to do.

TMA: How does one remember to make those right choices other than by paying attention moment to moment?

AC: You have to stay very much in tune and keep practicing. And then you notice the results of your actions when you come from one feeling or another. In other words, if I proceed from fear or guilt or "should" or obligation, usually those things backfire. But if I proceed from joy and aliveness and creativity and celebration, usually those things work out really well. You have to start making an association between the feeling you're having when you generate an action and then how the action worked out. The Universe always rewards us for authenticity . . . and it doesn't reward us for not being authentic except by our learning that the non-authentic is not it.

TMA: Geez, you mean we've gotta stay on top of our motives, too?

AC: Oh my God! Anything but that!
[laughter]

TMA: I know you're taking a trip to Greece with some people this year.

AC: Yes, I'm working with Power Places Tours, a wonderful spiritual travel group, and we're taking a group of people to Crete where we're going to explore power places. We've very excited about that. And then in November, the same organization is taking a group with me to the pyramids in Egypt. I've just returned from Machu Picchu and it's been a very exciting thing to get out there and explore these ancient mythical place where people have prayed and connected for thousands of years. It's a wonderful way to travel through the world.

TMA: How rough does it get?

AC: Not really rough. This is an organization that wants to keep people comfortable, so we stay in very nice places. If people want to rough it, they can find ways to go out and do that, but they seem to be gentle trips. We had three women over the age of 80 in the group of about 35 that went to Machu Picchu, and oh, they hiked and explored . . . it's amazing to see what you can do when you're motivated.

TMA: Three women in their 80s at that altitude?

AC: They did really well. I was inspired. I want to be like that when I grow up.

TMA: What will you be focusing on when you go to Crete?

AC: The truth is, I'm not an expert on the archeology but they bring in local experts and shamans and priests and healers who know a whole lot more about it than I do. What I like about the tours that I lead is that we have a personal element involved. Half the trip is touring and exploring and trying to understand a place, and then I also lead group sessions every day for meditation and sharing sessions, so everyone gets to talk about their process and what they're experiencing. It's a combination of the outer adventure and the inner adventure . . . the inner adventure is the one that makes it meaningful to me. We support each other in discovering ourselves while the trip is taking place.

TMA: Is there anything else you'd like to get in?

AC: I'd like to say that with the new millennium, it's really time to strike a new keynote . . . and for each person to look into their own heart and ask, "What do I want to create? What is my life about? What would be meaningful to me?" And then proceed with their inner life instead of external obligations.

Alan Cohen is the author of 14 popular inspirational books, including the classic The Dragon Doesn't Live Here Anymore and the award-winning book, A Deep Breath of Life. He is also a contributing writer for the New York Times bestselling series Chicken Soup for the Soul. Alan conducts workshops on spiritual awakening and visionary living. He also keynotes and presents seminars at conferences throughout the United States and abroad. His website is www.alancohen.com.